- This topic has 46 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 1 week, 1 day ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Great discussion here @lolamayi12345 and your points are spot on. This is a societal issue in general and is everywhere. The dating site Bumble even recently changed their whole concept of women messaging first in favor for male fairness. The treatment and decision making process is inherent in our society, communities, and families, and is taught from the moment anyone is born. The other issue (Michael, this is not a slight at/to you at all) is that admin looks through his own lens of what he knows, he learned from his own family and community growing up, and his own worldview. From what I have seen, he does his best, with what he knows, and tries to build a community. But he builds this site based off of HIS own beliefs and views. In this case and all cases, women must do what is right for themselves, and not for other people’s feelings and perceived fairness.
I’m coming at this topic from the viewpoint of a neurodivergent man who is a very long time user of the internet. I agree women should definitely feel safe and I hope this site makes them feel that way. I tend to struggle with picking up on social queues and also over think things. I worry that I may message a woman too much if I don’t receive a response at first. The reason that I message again is because I have had long time chat buddies tell me they never recieved messages on various sites or apps. So of course I send a message then spend lots of time wondering did they get it? Did they delete it without reading? Are they not interested? Did my message get lost in the flood? This site is better because I can see by the checks if it was at least recieved. Maybe implementing standard replies to cut down on the annoyance of repeat messages might work. Something like “Sorry not interested. Good luck in your search” or “Saw your message and will respond when I have more time to devote”. Now I’m not saying this will stop all annoyance and harassment, we all know some people can’t take no for answer, but it might help new users feel more comfortable. Another issue is,in my experience, alot of “dating sites” are geared towards getting the men to spend money to message “women” I put it in quotes because it seems a vast majority of the female profiles are not real. Either they are completely made up by the app owner to inflate the number of women using the app, they are real profiles, but on a different app that the parent company owns, they are scammers in foreign countries trying to extort money, social media engagement firms trying to increase OF subscribers, Ai bots, or women begging for money. That leaves a very very small percentage of profiles that are actual human women looking for a connection. This makes men “gun shy” and might lead to them inadvertently upsetting a woman and chasing her away from here. I will say I don’t believe this site has those issues with fake profiles, at least not that I have seen so far, but when men come here with their view skewed by those other sites it can lead to misunderstandings. Not sure this response stayed on topic, but I digress. Give women the tools to manage their experience, but don’t make it too restrictive. We’re all adults and should act accordingly 😉
I love this post!! Way to go, Lola!!
Absolutely agree on giving women the tools and let them decide how to use them.
Like to add that ‘protection’ of women is very much subject of discussion lately in society. Like to make 2 comments about it.
1. Its about time that women are safe wherever and whenever they want to go!!! And stop mansplaining! We are very able to speak for ourselves!
Some of you might know in my country we go everywher on a bicycle. Day and night, dark or daylight, sun or rain, snow and storm: it doesnt matter. In 2026!!!!!!!! the coucil of Amsterdam thought of asking women in what places they felt unsafe and what kind of streetlighting made them feel safer. It turned out they needed a very different approach, especially on the way the streets were lighted. Turned out the design was always made by men. 2026!!
Give women tools, listen to them, give them control over their environment.2. ‘Protection’ of women sounds nice but it means its done for them. It means control. Intentions are good, but it should not even be an issue. Its also adressing the wrong person. Men should focus on men. Say something when another guy is disrespectful to a woman, or when he is making degrading ‘jokes’ in a locker room. Hold other men accountable and dont laugh along because it could get awkward saying what you think. Cornell 7: whenever you see a friend post ‘free pussy’ you call the police.
@mobchip 😎
Exactly, Michael. Give us the tools, respect our choices, and trust grown women to manage their own damn attention. It really doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.
And thank you. I’m glad you understood exactly what I was trying to say. 🩷
@christylynn 🌸🌸🌸
YES. This is exactly the kind of thing I was curious about! An incognito option gives YOU another choice without changing anyone else’s experience. And your example is such a good one, you shouldn’t have to disappear from a community you enjoy because one person can’t behave.
That’s the kind of safety feature I can absolutely get behind: more control in the hands of the person who needs it, rather than more rules imposed on everybody.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses! 🩷
@anroc 🤓
I think you’re onto something with the bigger cultural piece. We absorb SO much about gender, fairness, access, whose feelings we’re supposed to protect, who is expected to accommodate whom…half of it is baked in before we’re old enough to realize we learned it somewhere.
I will defend Michael a little here, though. I’ve found him incredibly open to thoughtful suggestions, and I don’t expect him to somehow intuit every experience women have that he hasn’t lived himself. Hell, women don’t even agree with each other about what makes us feel comfortable or safe…which is kind of my whole point. 😂
Give us choices.
And then let us choose.
Because I think “fairness” gets VERY slippery when we start talking about men and women on dating sites. If ten men want access to one woman and she chooses none of them, that may feel spectacularly unfair to those ten men.
But nobody was actually wronged.
Sometimes female autonomy is going to produce outcomes men don’t particularly like. That’s not a flaw in the system.
That’s autonomy. 😘
Bill, you actually stayed very much on topic.🤓 And I appreciate hearing the other side of the inbox from someone who genuinely worries about getting it wrong rather than assuming he’s entitled to an answer.
I can absolutely understand the Did she see it? Did it disappear? Am I bothering her? spiral, especially if reading social cues is already harder for you. And those little delivery/read checks probably do more good than we realize.
Where I get twitchy 😂 is with standard replies if there’s any expectation that women should use them. As an optional tool? Sure. But the minute “Sorry, not interested” becomes the polite thing a woman is supposed to send, we’ve accidentally put another item right back on the to-do list.
Sometimes no response has to be allowed to mean no response.
I also think you make a really good point about men arriving here after years of dealing with bots, scammers, fake profiles and pay-to-message nonsense elsewhere. That baggage comes through the door with all of us in one form or another.
Maybe the answer isn’t trying to eliminate every possible misunderstanding. Maybe it’s giving people good tools, making expectations clear, and leaving a little room for grace when someone gets a social cue wrong without being a creep.
Because there really is a difference between awkward, uncertain and learning…and someone who simply refuses to respect a boundary.
Thank you for responding, I always appreciate your take on things. ❤️
Rumina, the streetlight example is PERFECT! That is exactly the difference between deciding what women need and actually asking women what would make us safer. And the fact that they had been designing public spaces for women without apparently considering how women experience those spaces is…well, rather on the nose for this entire conversation!
But your second point may be even more important.
If men genuinely want to help make women safer, maybe spend a little less energy figuring out how women should protect ourselves and a little more energy making shitty behavior socially expensive for other men.
Don’t laugh at the degrading joke. Call out the friend who won’t take no. Say something when another man is making a woman visibly uncomfortable. Don’t leave all the boundary enforcement to the woman being targeted.
THAT is men participating in women’s safety without taking control away from us.
And “protection sounds nice, but it means it’s done for them” is going to stick with me. That’s the tension underneath this whole damn conversation.
Thank you my friend, so wise! 🩷
The tools are available to both sexes and are applicable to both. There were some men who felt uneasy around some women and they had to take protective measures. Protection works both ways is first point. In terms of what I have experienced (not as a newbie tho) it’s mostly positive from men who always have a kind word or 2 when I am feeling down or have been bullied by others. Women generally don’t tend to extend compassion to other women and I don’t know why that is and I hope that changes for the better. There is no competition for men or women going on I hope.. I always think may the best people match together and if not me then he will find someone else better. As women share pics of themselves it isn’t to tease anyone or make anyone jealous it’s just a feeling of female empowerment but not at the expense of anyone else.
Pardon me if I said anything otherwise but these are my thoughts this morning. We need to treat both men and women with the utmost of good will, kindness and respect because one cannot exist without the other in a abf or anr relationship. 🌺😘🥰
@lolamayi12345 I was definitely thinking of the auto responses as an optional tool. Just a button to click. Something to make it easier to wade through the overfull inbox and allow someone to answer messages instead of looking at how many are unread and just mass deleting because it’s too much lol. These tools are mostly for women, but I imagine somewhere out there is a man whose inbox gets flooded with messages as well. Somewhere? Right? Lol
@sind 🌸
Sparkling, I absolutely agree that men deserve safety, boundaries and respect too. I don’t think any of that is gender specific.
But I think we may be talking about two slightly different things.
What got under my skin was the idea that women, particularly new women, might need their inboxes managed for them because male attention could be “overwhelming.”
Nope! Give me the tools and let me decide what overwhelms me.
That’s why I keep coming back to access, attention and safety. A respectful message I don’t want to answer isn’t a safety issue. Someone being disappointed that I didn’t choose them isn’t a safety issue. Harassment, threats, stalking, coercion or refusing to take no for an answer? THAT is where protection matters, for women or men.
And I don’t see women here as competing with each other at all. If a man chooses another woman over me, God bless them both. He wasn’t mine to lose.
Same with pictures. Post the boobs. Enjoy the attention. Ignore the attention. Answer everybody. Answer nobody. 🤷🏼♀️
That’s kind of my whole point.
Give people choices and let them choose.
Kindness matters enormously, but kindness is how we treat each other.
Autonomy is who gets to decide.
And I’m always going to come down pretty hard on the side of letting grown women decide for themselves. 🩷
Social media has made anyone accessible to anybody , anywhere.
That doesn’t mean you have to give them access.
Yeah it could be overwhelming to get a ton of messages from profiles with no photos or names which can feel weird? I wouldnt know.
Its nice to feel wanted so I would think most women would have a field day going through who is worthy and who is not.
I also think if they get offended or scared away .. they gave up too fast and too easy. Any site, tinder, facebook, reddit etc she will be bombarded with attention seeking men. Of course its up the male to attract the woman either by spreading their wings and flocking their feathers (looks) or a deep strong mating call (personality) . I watched animal planet this week sorry for the reference.
Are they in any real danger? No.
Is it annoying ? Yes.But its nice to feel wanted and liked. A lot of men including me wish we had options or an inbox full of beautiful women wanting to feed us.
Lets not forget there are also some women who may not be so lucky and dont get the attention others do. There may be a solution we aren’t seeing !
Makes sense Lola. But given my scenario as a newbie who grew up shy in a highly conservative family where I wasn’t allowed to really voice my opinion I really had no sense of my own voice or power.
It’s not just me but this happens in many countries and also in our own country in many communities if the female isn’t given a voice in the family or given empowerment culturally.
It isn’t as easy for a woman then to not fall victim to a smooth talking guy who is just using her to satisfy his needs.
People try to move you to a different platform, isolate you into chatting with only them via video call or demand pics to fulfill their fantasies.
There are really bad predators who know who their targets should be .. find the inexperienced innocent woman who doesn’t have enough confidence in her voice or her body or has had pain/suffering in her life and target her..because they now know what buttons to push to let her think he cares for you. It’s only when the woman wakes up and realizes that it’s a pattern and that she’s being used that she develops the inner resilience to stand up for herself.
Mr. French, I leave you alone with Animal Planet for ONE WEEK! 😂
I agree with a lot of this, but you slipped into exactly the territory I’m talking about with “most women would have a field day” and women who leave “gave up too fast and too easy.”
Maybe I’d have a field day. Maybe another woman would find 50 messages exhausting as hell. Maybe a third would ignore 49 of them and happily investigate the one peacock whose mating call caught her attention.
None of us is wrong.
And if a woman decides the attention isn’t enjoyable enough to make the site worth staying on, she didn’t “give up.” She made a choice about how she wants to spend her time.
I think this is where men and women can genuinely experience the same thing very differently. An inbox full of interested women might sound like Christmas morning to a man who rarely receives unsolicited attention. For a woman who has been navigating unsolicited male attention most of her life, quantity doesn’t necessarily feel flattering, or translate into actual options.
That doesn’t make male attention bad. Hell, sometimes it’s delightful. 😏
It just means the person receiving the attention gets to decide what that attention is worth to them.
Now please stop learning about women from mating birds. 😉😘
@sind 🫶🏻
Sparkling, THIS I understand much better. 🩷 And I think you’re adding an important layer to the conversation.
Not every woman arrives with the same ability to recognize manipulation, say no, enforce a boundary or even trust that little voice telling her something feels wrong. Especially if she grew up being taught (directly or indirectly) that being “good” meant being agreeable, accommodating and not making other people uncomfortable.
And yes, there are absolutely people who know how to exploit that.
But to me, that makes empowerment even more important than protection.
Teach women what grooming and manipulation can look like. Make boundaries normal. Give us strong blocking and privacy tools. Make reporting easy. Create a culture where “no” is respected and where other members speak up when someone repeatedly crosses lines.
And then let women use those tools.
Because I don’t want the lesson for a woman who hasn’t found her voice yet to be, “Don’t worry, we’ll make the decisions for you.”
I want it to be, “Your voice matters here. Here are the tools. We’ll back you up when you use them.”
THAT feels like safety without taking her power away.
And, thank you for your perspective and for taking the time to reply! 🩷
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.